Why does Madison PD need an MRAP? |
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alabamatoy
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Posted: 06 December 2014 at 2:01am |
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Want to see what police departments have received as surplus gear from the DoD? Go here and choose the state from the pulldown at the bottom, and scroll through the police and sheriffs departments that have received gear from DoD. Interesting list.
According to this report, Madison PD received:
Hmmm.......Huntsville PD, OTOH, received some stuff that concerns me:
Presumably these are AR-15s or more likely full-auto M16s. Why does Huntsville PD need 67 of these? According to Wikipedia, HPD has about 400 sworn officers. |
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cj8lvr
RCRC LLC Member Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Madison, Madison County Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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Move along....nothing to see here....
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Case
RCRC LLC Member Have you seen my 9/16" socket? Joined: 20 September 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1773 |
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the madison MRAP will be used to enforce the dumb speed limits on county line road and to write tickets for going more than 34 mph on hughes road.
its all for public safety. |
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06 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited all torn apart.
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cj8lvr
RCRC LLC Member Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Madison, Madison County Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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Bahaaaa!!!!!!
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l___l__L-O|||||O_ _()_)__()_)___()_) Jake White Owner of CartoTracks.com Trail Maps Past RCRC - VP Past Nat'l CJ-8 Scrambler Owners Association President |
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cj8lvr
RCRC LLC Member Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Madison, Madison County Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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...and the children!
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l___l__L-O|||||O_ _()_)__()_)___()_) Jake White Owner of CartoTracks.com Trail Maps Past RCRC - VP Past Nat'l CJ-8 Scrambler Owners Association President |
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Mike_LaMar
RCRC Club Visitor Joined: 25 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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They must have seen the VA's # of Madison county veterans "claiming" PTSD.
Mike |
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"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. - Dwight D. Eisenhower |
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alabamatoy
Admin Group I dont work here anymore... Joined: 16 February 2004 Location: Signal Mountain Status: Offline Points: 9369 |
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City of Madison Chief of Police Larry Muncey contacted me about this issue because I wrote the Mayor asking about it. Muncey asked me to call him. I sent him a note back stating that I wanted his answer in writing because I intended to share it with others who were also concerned. If I get an answer, I will share it here.
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alabamatoy
Admin Group I dont work here anymore... Joined: 16 February 2004 Location: Signal Mountain Status: Offline Points: 9369 |
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Police Chief Muncey responded:
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Muncey, Larry <Larry.Muncey@madisonal.gov> wrote:The illuminators are what allows someone with a set of infrared goggles or rifle scope to see a laser dot on a target while that laser dot is invisible to the naked eye. It helps the military take out enemy combatants without the enemy knowing that they have a laser dot on them. If you read "13 hours in Benghazi" there is a good discussion in there of how these are used. |
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cj8lvr
RCRC LLC Member Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Madison, Madison County Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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Wow, I'm pretty impressed actually. Not your normal boiler-plate extended non-answer.
So, when can we test the MRAP? Better yet, will the Madison PD use RCRC members to help extract their humvees in the next snow/ice event? I keed I keed.
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___/| [_\__\],
l___l__L-O|||||O_ _()_)__()_)___()_) Jake White Owner of CartoTracks.com Trail Maps Past RCRC - VP Past Nat'l CJ-8 Scrambler Owners Association President |
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RL-RRC
Admin Group Forum Curator Joined: 19 April 2006 Location: Kirkland,TN Status: Offline Points: 1000140 |
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My question back is how was it even possible to operate a police force and protect the public prior to not having an MRAP and night vision. We were all in grave danger 24/7 and didn't know it.
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96 Lexus lx450
85 Toyota Truggy built by Don 02 Jeep WJ Chance favors the prepared! |
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CJ7OX
RCRC Club Member Joined: 17 February 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1869 |
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The image intensifiers attach to sniper scopes to make them night vision capable. The illuminators are not very accurate for use in sighting, nor are they designed for that. They're useful in CQB as a sight, but only at ranges under 25m. Their designed to be used by team leaders to orient team members on targets. Also useful for "painting" targets for aircraft using NVDs.
As for the MRAP, I hope they don't try to use it in the snow, ice, or any "offroad" situation other than gravel, as they will get stuck. Even though they're 4x4, I've seen them get stuck in 1 inch deep sand on level terrain. LOL.
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~Sean
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. -Reagan MOLON LABE 85ish CJ-7/06 CTD |
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Case
RCRC LLC Member Have you seen my 9/16" socket? Joined: 20 September 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1773 |
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in what situation has Madison found itself in where they need a mine resistant vehicle to subdue a suspect??? in the past rather than throw military equipment at a situation they would... I don't know... not put themselves in a situation where they needed to assault an armed suspect head on. The entire thing is ridiculous and can only be justified by "Officer safety" BS. If I won the lottery and bought an MRAP do you think I wouldn't be hassled? Do you think they would tolerate the "Its for my safety" excuse??? The entire militarization of the police force just reinforces the "us against them" mentality. Those "Thin blue line" stickers infuriate me. I'm sorry, but Madison PD is not holding back humanity from waves of crime and darkness. I'm already being harassed by cops in crown vics, fusions, tahoes, suburbans, unmarked camaros , corvettes and now they need humvees and MRAPS? For police work in Madison? Give me a f'n break. When my wife's car was broken into in Madison did the thin blue line help us? No, they caught the guys who did it (because a citizen chased them down) and when one of them turned out to be a cop from Birmingham we were told not to worry about it. No charges were filed and no one went to jail. I want to look the entire madison police force straight in the eye and I want to tell them what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit they are! Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol? |
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06 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited all torn apart.
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98TJ
RCRC Club Member RCRC Club Treasurer Joined: 10 May 2005 Location: Maysville, Madison County Status: Online Points: 8390 |
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Dang, they are getting those for $499 a pop. Must be nice to be able to buy in qty like that. Wonder if Chief Muncey would consider doing a Group Buy next time and let the other citizens of Madison county get in on that sweet deal? Man, in my life I have had run-ins with just about every kinda police there is. Been hauled off to jail, have looked down the wrong end of a 12 gage pump amd even had one Dekalb County deputy threaten to hit me between the eyes with the 357 he had in his hand (his other hand was firmly around my neck). Looking back on it, I can say that in all but one case, the cop acted professionally. I'm glad we got police; this place would be a zoo without them.
Edited by 98TJ - 17 December 2014 at 6:38am |
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alabamatoy
Admin Group I dont work here anymore... Joined: 16 February 2004 Location: Signal Mountain Status: Offline Points: 9369 |
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I had two Madison police officers at my house back in early November (its a long and ugly story) and they were totally nice and professional and I can't say anything bad about either of them. I have a good friend (Tim Savelle, was an honorary member of this club for a while) who is a cop in NC. Its very interesting to talk to him over a beer around the campfire and hear his perspective.
I dont see why Madison needs these things. But I guess if I were a cop and the Fed was handing out free candy, I would take some. I am just sickened by the whole situation we face now. I feel for the cops who are being characterized as evil by the "I cant breath" haters. But I dont like cops having more firepower than most banana republics. I think that those kinds of tools should be reserved for the Nat Guard or state Militia which could be called upon when there is an uprising in Meadow Creek subdivision or Cliffs Cove stages a violent protest against a cable TV price increase. There needs to be a conscious decision made by someone that I elected as to when to use such tools. |
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"If you didnt buy your 1st gen 4Runner new, then YOU are a newbie!!"
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98TJ
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Do you remeber that big shootout in LA years ago where the two bank robbers in full body armor carrying full auto AK47 and hundreds of rounds of ammo? The video of that was incredible. You could see some of the cops 9mm rounds hitting the bad guys body armor with no effect. Another thing to consider is just about anyone in this country can get their hands on an AR or AK, a sack of 30 rnd mags and all the ammo they can carry. Now you got the "lone wolf" terrorists who can popup anywhere at anytime. I think that things like this leave the police in the position of not knowing what they my have to face tomorrow, so they prepare for the worst. When I was young, no cops had body armor, most just carried 38 spl revolvers and maybe a shotgun in the trunk; but we also didn't have this back then: Edited by 98TJ - 17 December 2014 at 9:10am |
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Case
RCRC LLC Member Have you seen my 9/16" socket? Joined: 20 September 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1773 |
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please don't mistake my rant as anything but frustration about misappropriated tax funds and overly aggressive enforcement of bad traffic regulations by bored cops who have nothing else to do.
I wish no personal ill against any cop. Their job is tough and dangerous. However I cannot help but be concerned when the police are arming themselves like the military, yet do not have the military training or discipline that our armed forces have. Police raid houses and shoot the wrong people all the time. Their rules of engagement are more lax than those of our soldiers in hot spots around the world. All of this money spent on military equipment could be better utilized purchasing and using body camera systems for every day police actions. The Michael Brown case would have been a non issue if the cop had a camera. But I bet if you look at his department expenditures, more money is spent on military equipment than cameras which protect the officer's reputation and career as well as serving as a tool to make sure justice is served. Tactics like no knock raids and overabundance of "SWAT" usage need to be curtailed. If some punk in your neighborhood gets busted and tells the police your house is a full on meth lab and they raid it with a no knock whats going to happen to you? You are going to respond just like you know you would if someone is suddenly breaking into your house and then you will be shot dead. I like Doc's idea of pushing this type of equipment and tactics towards a national guard unit/state militia. Something with lots of oversight and with a focus on proper use of ROE and established policies and procedures that can serve dangerous warrants without getting the wrong address or busting doors down when kids are inside sleeping. |
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CJ7OX
RCRC Club Member Joined: 17 February 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1869 |
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Case, the only problem with is this: The governement is busting its ass trying to downsize the National Guard, and we already have our fill of this type equipment. Some Guard units are actually better equiped than their active duty counterparts. The biggest issue is, aside from Military Police units, which are very few in the Guard/Reserve, we don't have any training on civil policing actions. Also, we can't do anything without the Governor's express orders, and that funding comes from the state. For instance, being called up in MS for a hurricane falls under state funding not federal (unless it is deemed a national disaster) and the state can barely pay our state active duty pay of $35 a day. Yes, that's right, $35 a day. Doesn't matter what your rank is. They would not be able to pay us to serve warrants. And, not that I disasgree with you on the topic of militarizing the police forces, if they didn't make this equipment available for use by those agencies, it would just get destroyed. Since this equipment is all surplus from more than 10 years at war, that would be a waste. The PDs aren't buying this stuff, it is being issued to them rather than going to the smelter. This actually enables the government to keep better track of it, as stuff sometimes gets reported as destroyed and then sold on the black market. No real good solution here.
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~Sean
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. -Reagan MOLON LABE 85ish CJ-7/06 CTD |
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alabamatoy
Admin Group I dont work here anymore... Joined: 16 February 2004 Location: Signal Mountain Status: Offline Points: 9369 |
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You point out a lot of significant issues which all need to be fixed. If we have extra gear that the DoD doesn't need, then someone in the DoD should be losing their job for buying it when its not needed. Police forces should not be armed with this stuff. The cameras sure make sense to me, put a gopro on every cop and archive his daily footage for 2 weeks and if its not needed, erase it., Do same on every cop car. Buy the cops whatever protective gear they need, but stop arming the cops with military gear. If they suspect a perp who is seriously armed, call the NG and go through the process of getting them there, paid appropriately. |
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98TJ
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I don't guess I would last a day as a cop:
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98TJ
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I think that was tried in Waco a few years back with "mixed" results.
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CJ7OX
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That cop was a lot more patient than I would have been.
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~Sean
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. -Reagan MOLON LABE 85ish CJ-7/06 CTD |
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CJ7OX
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The need was there while we were still fighting two wars. And the MRAPs were specialty items tailored for Iraq, with no other real use. They have no real tactical value, with the exception of the MAT-Vs. Now that we are out of Iraq, and getting out of Afghanistan, we have a major surplus of those items. So they have to be stored for a possible future need (not likely that need will ever exist again), destroyed, or put to use in other government agencies.
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~Sean
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. -Reagan MOLON LABE 85ish CJ-7/06 CTD |
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98TJ
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I had never seen the entire video. The media usually starts the tape as back up arives, the van speeds away and the shooting starts. I have no idea who any mom could put her children in that kind of jeopardy over a simple $120 speeding ticket. What an idiot.
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Case
RCRC LLC Member Have you seen my 9/16" socket? Joined: 20 September 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1773 |
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all that violence and drama over a speeding violation. none of that was necessary. from either side.
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06 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited all torn apart.
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CJ7OX
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Yeah, I can't see the justification for shooting at the vehicle. Major safety issue there, as you have no clue where those rounds are going to end up. I will say I was impressed with how fast that minivan was!
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~Sean
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. -Reagan MOLON LABE 85ish CJ-7/06 CTD |
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RL-RRC
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I believe you should be concerned when the government(local or Federal) is increasing capacity to oppress while the citizenry ability to be able to fight off oppression is being reduced. It only takes a few key moves to get a checkmate in the right political climate.
Edited by RL-RRC - 18 December 2014 at 10:59am |
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96 Lexus lx450
85 Toyota Truggy built by Don 02 Jeep WJ Chance favors the prepared! |
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98TJ
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They were shooting at the vehicle's tires, not the van. Apparently; didn't hit either. Just the fact that the woman would drive over 100 mph in city traffic with 4 children in a minivan tells me all I need to know about her. All she had to do was sign the ticket and she would have been on her way with her expires drivers liscense. Some folks just don't think the law applies to them.
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CJ7OX
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Yeah. I love when she's telling the cop, "I wasn't running from you!" After she takes off and has to be chased down the second time.
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~Sean
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. -Reagan MOLON LABE 85ish CJ-7/06 CTD |
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98TJ
RCRC Club Member RCRC Club Treasurer Joined: 10 May 2005 Location: Maysville, Madison County Status: Online Points: 8390 |
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Ever seen the dash cam video of the Texas Ranger who is standing behind a car he pulled over with 3 mexicans. He is big man with a big gun on his hip. He is probably twice the size of the biggest mexican. All of a sunden one of the mexicans dives at his feet and locks his ankles up. Then the othere two tackle him high and he goes down. You then here him being killed with his own firearm. The killers were never caught. Pretty sickening to watch.
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1998 TJ 4.0 5spd Atlas 36" Swampers RE4.5 ARB's 44/44
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CJ7OX
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Yeah, I've seen that one.
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~Sean
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. -Reagan MOLON LABE 85ish CJ-7/06 CTD |
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