Glock pistol

Patrick,
Just to clarify, I wasn't saying a .40 was more accurate than a 9 mm, just that my wife was still accurate when stepping up to the higher recoil .40 (she could still control the larger load and maintain accuracy on the range).

What you are saying is a whole 'nother discussion.  There could be some truth to that as well. 

Everything else being equal, a .40 won't have better penetration since it's a larger diameter.  Typically, .40's have lower sectional density than 9's but there are always exceptions and usually to make them equal, you have to take the highest weight .40 bullet and compare to a lowest weight 9 bullet.  [Note: sectional density: long and thin vs. short and fat]

Popular bullet weight against popular bullet weight with similar purpose rounds, the 9 will penetrate better.  There's other things more important than penetration, so don't focus on one thing to the detriment of other, more important things (like reliability).  For example, the best penetration round regardless of caliber is almost always "full metal jacket" bullets.  These bullets suck for self defense since they usually drill nice little holes in the bad guy - which isn't good.

Accuracy in the type of guns we're referring to here will be hard, if not impossible, to measure.  You might could tell if you had a Ransom Rest (~$200 last time I looked), but then you have a gazillion factors to control such as bullet type, bullet weight, bullet velocity, gun manufacturer etc. etc. between two quite different calibers - not worth it for the purpose intended of self defense.


Oh, and if anyone thinks a 9mm will bounce off a human forehead, just hasn't shot many 1/4" steel plates with it.  Barring some miracle, like penetrating a car windshield from longer distance (e.g. the TX women recently), generally speaking it's gonna go in one end and stay or come out the other end at the ranges and ammo usually used for self-defense - either way, bad guy DRT. 

What's more likely to happen vs "bouncing off" is the bullet will skid between the skull and the skin and come out some other direction, pretty much leaving the victim with a bad headache.  This is an exception (and a highly unlikely exception), not the rule.  It certainly isn't a good reason to not buy the 9mm.


Buy what you want and what you're comfortable with and then load it with the most effective self-defense round and don't worry about what others think and especially don't worry about what some gun author thinks.  Unless you buy a Lorcin, Jennings or a Hi Point, they're all pretty good.

Yeah, I started the thread because I wanted to find a good/cheap used glock.  Since then I have realized there is no such thing, but everybody else seems to be buying the M&P's so I guess I will follow.  I just went to JC's guns and tackle, that place is as bad as Madison Guns.  They are selling used M&P's for $499, one clip, no box and alot of wear.

Thanks to Al and mdmTJ I now can join in on the caliber argument when I hear it come up.  I am just about conviced that I am going to get the full size 9mm M&P.  I am still going to check out the compact if they have anymore. 

Jake was the military version any more?  Where did you find it or did you have to ask for it?

I'm not sure how we ended up with it actually.  It could be the fact that we asked that it have the capability to fire one round that is already chambered with a magazine absent.  It may be that version of the weapon that you should ask for.  I'm not sure that all of them have that capability.

Quite frankly, between a 9mm and .40 we can all argue it untill we're blue in the face.  We have a friend who works in an ER in Birmingham who routinely sees "folks" coming in there high on you name it with dents in their foreheads from 9mm rounds.

Pair that with the fact that it's the same caliber as my Ruger and the fact that Jennifer could still control a .40 just fine and maintain accuracy, we made our decision.

I leave the rest up to you.

There is one difference however that we have noticed between the S&W M&P 9mm and .40 and that is that Murphy's (mdmtj) 9mm ejects the casings straight up in the air and either into your face or down your shirt.  The .40 sends them clear over your right shoulder.  The only reason we can conclude is the energy produced by the .40 round is greater than that of the 9mm and therfore gives it better ejection efficiency.

The casings hitting you could be a bit distracting.  This is just something we've noticed since purchasing them.

Good luck.

I have a Kimber 45, Glock 17 and Sig P229 in .357sig among others.  Out of those I carry the Sig, it has much more energy to me.  But after the nuclear winter I'll be using the Glock

Edited by RL-RRC

What can I say, I know how to negotiate.

4RUNNERB12 wrote: I went to Larry's today and shot the 9 FS, .40FS, and .40compact (whats weird is I shot the best with the .40compact).  But I think I am going to get the 9mm, it will be cheaper to shoot and when I get pretty good at shooting this one I will get a 45. Jake, I asked the guy about the one you got that shoots with out the clip and he said you had to be military or a cop to get that one.  He asked for your name so I told him John Smith .  I think you got lucky getting that one.

As far as I know, only certain S&W autos have the magazine disconnect and it should be an option because some police departments order them that way.  Pain in the butt during "show clear" drills (standard IPSC drill - slide locked, magazine out, drop slide, fire weapon, holster).  It's a potential lifesaver for LEO's since they have a much greater chance of having their weapons taken from them.  It's a hindrance to us IMO.  I wouldn't get a handgun with one.




Edited by Al

alabamatoy wrote: 4RUNNERB12 wrote: Jake, I asked the guy about the one you got that shoots with out the clip and he said you had to be military or a cop to get that one. The guy is either wrong, or Larry's doesnt adhere to this.  To wit: [snip]

+1.  When it comes to firearms, you simply must apply critical thinking skills to what anyone tells you, especially if it comes from a gun shop.

For example, straight from S&W's site, took all of about 1.5 minutes to find.  Note the simple statement middle right:  "Magazine Disconnect - (Optional for LE/Gov't)"  http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/M P_FEATURES_AD.pdf

Edited by Al

4RUNNERB12 wrote: Hey Doc, is that you gun in the picture with the CTC laser?  I want one of those.

Yep.  I like the crimson trace.

cj8lvr wrote: ...There is one difference however that we have noticed between the S&W M&P 9mm and .40 and that is that Murphy's (mdmtj) 9mm ejects the casings straight up in the air and either into your face or down your shirt...

It seems to have been a break-in/operator issue because it consistantly throws the casing to the right rear now.  These weapons are bit more sensitive to how they are held than other auto pistols I've fired.  The "plastic" frame makes for a much lighter weapon than something like a 1911.  This lighter weight tends to make the shooter work a little harder maintaining a proper grip to absorb the recoil.  They are much more likely to have "limp wrist" issues which causes failure to eject problems and can also cause the casing to eject in unpredictable directions/distances.  The trigger pull has smoothed out a bit as well.

cj8lvr wrote: …  We have a friend who works in an ER in Birmingham who routinely sees "folks" coming in there high on you name it with dents in their foreheads from 9mm rounds…

Sounds more like a problem with shot placement than caliber selection.

alabamatoy wrote: …  Before I bought the pistol, I did some comparison pricing between the 9mm and the .40 and there wasnt enough price difference to notice, my recollection was it was less than a dollar for a box of 50…

A 100 round box of Winchester target rounds at Wally world is $18+ for 9mm and $26+ for .40 cal.  There are better places to buy it but…

4RUNNERB12 wrote: …I asked the guy about the one you got that shoots with out the clip and he said you had to be military or a cop to get that one…

Both of our M&Ps fire quite well with no magazine in the weapon.  It sounds like someone is a tad confused.

 

S&W is having some issues with mailing out the 2 rebate magazines for the 9mm.  Seems like they are sending out .357/.40 cal. magazines instead of 9mm.  When I got the .357/.40 magazines I sent S&W an email explaining what I had gotten.  They sent me a UPS shipping label to return the wrong magazines and said that the proper magazines would be mailed in about a week.  When I shipped the .357/.40 magazines back I enclosed a copy of the email I had sent them.  About a week later (a week ago) I got two 9mm magazines.  Saturday I got two more 9mm magazines with a copy of my email wrapped around them.  ??!!  So far I've gotten the $50 rebate check and four magazines ($26+/- each) out of this deal.  I can live with this.

I actually work part time at Larry's (trying to support my other habits).

To shine a little light on the firing with the magizine dropped, it has nothing to do with Law Enforcement or Military guns (The only thing different about those is that you get 3 hi cap mags with the gun instead of 2).  When S&W started making the M&P, it was produced without the mag disconnect which meant that the gun would fire without the mag in it.  Since many law enforcment agencies prefer a gun the have the mag disconnect they started manufacturing the majority of the guns with the disconnect which meant; no mag, no boom.

So it is no big deal that someone has one without it, just a coincidence.

And i don't even want to get started on the 9mm, .40 cal thing.  My hands won't hold up to that much typing.

That alone would be another great incentive to join RCRC...

Mine actually says will shot without magazine on the side I didn't notice until I took it to the range. 

And Fatguy I asked the salesman to give me the government discount and he lied to me and said there was no discount, he was actually pretty rude about the hole sale, acted like I was bothering him or something.

How much for a XD subcompact (3") 9mm?

There is a used subcompact XD9 up there right now for $350, new they are around $500, same for the fullsize